Individual or Overall Cut-off in Prelims 2011?
In my previous post on the Prelims cut off I estimated the minimum cut off to be around 160 and I still stand by that figure. Since then there have been many comments speculating the minimum score required to qualify for the Mains. Many readers have also submitted their marks and wanted to know whether they will crack the Prelims or not.
While I or no one for that matter can tell for sure whether you will crack the Prelims or not we can surely elaborate on the theme of cut off in detail as the interest in the Prelims cut off seems to be quite high leading up to the results.
Well as one of the blog readers Swathi has rightly said there never was any individual cut off till 2010 and there won’t be any in 2011 as well. This statement seems quite logical. Logical you might ask? Yes and let me explain why there can’t be any individual cut-off in the Prelims.
The number of people who clear the Prelims any given year is approximately 13 times the vacancies announced in the Prelims notification. Since UPSC declared 880 vacancies in the 2011 notification it will take about 880 X 13 = 11440 candidates in the Mains.
Now let’s assume for a moment that are individual cut offs for each paper. Based on the difficulty level, UPSC may fix a minimum qualifying score of 65 marks to clear the first paper and 95 marks for the second paper. Although this seems quite plausible at first you’ll soon realize that minimum qualifying marks cannot be set.
What happens when 11440 candidates fail to secure minimum 65 and 95 marks in the first and second paper respectively? Suppose they get 95 marks in the second paper but not 65 marks in paper 1 so does UPSC reduce the minimum marks in the first paper, let’s assume, to 55 marks?
If it does, there could be the following scenarios:
- Candidate X gets minimum 55 marks in Paper 1 as required and 95 marks in Paper 2 taking the total to 150 marks.
- Candidate Y gets just 50 marks in Paper 1 but scores 120 in Paper 2 to reach 170 marks in aggregate.
But this disqualifies candidate Y as he/she failed to secure the minimum marks. However it seems quite unfair that Y had to be disqualified for getting just 5 marks less in paper 1 even though he/she managed to get 20 marks more on aggregate than X.
If this person were to file an RTI application to disclose the minimum marks and suppose UPSC miraculously does disclose the minimum cut off the next step would be a writ petition challenging the logic of the cut off marks.
Also if UPSC lowered the cut off to ensure that 11440 candidates get through the prelims, those who didn’t make it because of one paper are sure to challenge why cut off was lowered in one paper but not in the other.
UPSC will surely have a hard time defending itself. And it knows this.
The second reason is that constantly changing the cut-off marks to obtain the minimum number of candidates is no fixed cut-off rather it is a self-determining cutoff where the top 11440 candidates get through; what I have advocated right at the beginning.
Past Examples
To further demonstrate to you that there are no individual cut-offs let me narrate some first-hand experiences. I’ve personally known people who secured as low as 35 marks in GS paper in the old syllabus in 2008, 2009, and 2010 but managed to get above 200 marks in their Optional paper and ultimately cleared the Prelims!
This proves without doubt that there was no minimum cut off in the previous Prelims and there won’t be any in the 2011 prelims as well.
Hey But You Said Something About Minimum Cutoff in the Previous Post
Sure I did but I never meant a minimum cut off set by UPSC rather I meant that people would on average get minimum 75 marks in paper 1 and 85 marks in paper 2 so that the 11440th candidate/s get/s 160 marks to get through.
So When Will the Result be Declared?
This is another common query that many readers have. Usually the Prelims result is declared in the first or second week of August and it won’t be any different this year as well.
While some people are assuming a July 20 D-day this is common speculation every year and 2011 is no exception. While it’s true that results process should logically get speeded up as there were no optionals and no scaling that has saved precious time for UPSC let me stick my neck out to state UPSC still won’t declare the results before the first week of August as the Prelims was held one month late than usual.
Should I Start Preparing for Mains?
By all means go ahead irrespective of the outcome. Anyway you will appear for Mains if not this year then the next so it’s best to prepare for it early as you won’t start preparing for Prelims immediately in the unfortunate case of not clearing the Prelims. So it makes good sense to devote some valuable time for Mains preparation.
In the last post on Prelims cut off I enjoyed some wonderful feedback and really insightful comments on Prelims cut off. Let’s see you guys post something interesting here as well.
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Related posts:
- The Most Comprehensive Analysis of Prelims 2011 with Cut-off
- IAS Civil Services Prelims 2009 Cut-Off
- New IAS Prelims Syllabus for 2011 CSAT
- A Month to go for Prelims 2011
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74 Comments »
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I like ur analysis keep it. I expect more and more from you.
Thanks Bharat
Can anybody give me the book details for Hindi Language for IAS Mains … Pls!
You need books for GS or Optionals?
yes i need gs book
mentioning all the books is cumbersome in comparison to make a visit to the website of university of delhi.just go to the section of course details for BA(HONS.) and/or MA for hindi-lit. .it is of immence help for getting the name of standard reference books for the same.IN FACT THIS MODUS-OPERANDI MAY BE APPLICABLE TO ANY BOOK RELATED ENQUIRY.
Great Analysis. I thought this website was shutdown or something. However, thanks to your email, I now know it is alive and kicking.
I am very nervous about my exams next year! I have just reached New Delhi last week and I am now looking for good shops to buy books at cheap prices. In addition, I am visiting the jia sirai to interact with Civil Services aspirants to find out best coaching centres for Public Administration and Sociology. I don't have any knowledge on these two subjects. I am not sure about socio….but Public Administration is definitely going to be one of my optionals.
Thanks Antariksh…yes the blog will go on for a long time to come.
Best of luck with your preparation and don't forget to check out Rajender and Mukherjee nagar as well!
hallo antariksh, Public administration is no doubt is a judicious choice.IGNOU's text for Pub. Ad. is very very supportive.besides textbooks one can also go for Mr. mohanty's(of Senergy-classes) or Mr. bhawani singh's(of Nias-classes) notes.
Thanks for the great analysis, even though I do not agree with the 160 cut off mark, but surely appreciate that it gives positive spirit to aspirants. As there is no harm in preparing for the mains as hard work never harms. Please provide some suggestions and plan to study for the preparation of the mains. I have to start from the scratch and its almost 3 months left now.
Please suggest some optionals which have a short syllabus and are high scoring.
Before 12th June, everyone guessed the 1st paper as GS and 2nd as CSAT but we should take notice of UPSC writing 1st paper as GS-1 and 2nd as GS-2. This points represents what they likely to do: means they might declare the cutoff on the basis of total marks and not on the basis of different cutt off in each paper. So, Cut off may be 170+/- 10 as stated by experts.
could you tell me what would be the probable highest score in paper 1
Dear sir,
I am very happy to know that you are once again in our contact. Sir my long time problem has been writing essays. so please suggest me some essay books. I am also following seminar and frontline magazine.
and how should i prepare gs for mains? should i follow
any book then suggest me please.
thank you
Will suggest essay books Ashish…GS prep post coming soon
Its better to be a realist then to live in some sort of delusion.Cut offs for general category is not going to be less than 190 marks.In my opinion candidates scoring more than 200+ are safe.Anybody scoring less than 185 (general category) should not expect to get through. sectional cut off will be around 60 in paper 1 and 80 in second 2 .I know it may sound a little bit harsh but then this is what I feel.
and abt individual cut off every other exam like prob officer(bank), RBI have sectional cutoff and if we assume that there will be no individual cut off then how can upsc judge a sincere candidate because many persons have given exam by thinking that they will be able to clear it only by solving aptitude test though they dnt know any thing about upsc.
i know many people who have scored around 100 in paper 1 and 160 in second.so in my opinion 160 will be quite low to get through
Hi Manoj,
What you said was True . I did not make it to Prelims. Feels bad. Paper1 80(40*2) + Paper2 112(45*2.5) = (192)Total. I fall in GM. I should have got 200+ as you suggested. Regretting now.
Thanks
Bharath Rakesh
Just solved prelims 2011 got 85 in paper 1, 120 in paper 2. Solved it in 2.5 hrs and didnt even attempt mathsy questions in part2. Assuming Ans – 1/3(Ans)
Yes, somewhere around 160 would be the general threshold (gen category) I guess.
Its very strange how contrasting the keys are, released over the past month, by various reputed inst/newspapers/mags etc. My scores are ranging from 145-211, unbelievable!!
So I think the best thing we can do now is just continue the Mains prep irrespective of all the keys. Its for sure, there will be lot of surprises!!….something we cant control anymore.
The other thing I noticed is, how UPSC is hell bent on making this 'screening' test that much harder every passing year. I am guessing, this is to throw away those coaching institutes. Now we hear that, IIT and Engg/Med Coaching centers like Narayana and Chaitanya in AP, are trying to get a piece of this action. And that makes even harder for us as well as for UPSC (they have to prepare even harder papers) !!…….
Anyway, all the best to all of us for the Mains!! Hope for the best.
Just wondering, LazyLord, if we can have 'edit' option on our respective posts, to correct any mistakes, after we publish them!! Just a thought
Maybe I can find some right plugin for it…will overhaul the commenting system
Swathi i totally agree with you..Im getting between 160 – 190 due to difference in key by diff institutes..As you said, commercialization of the coaching institutes like Narayana and Sri chaitanya is definitely a concern for all of us.
Yup Sri Chaitanya is entering into UPSC coaching ….
they brought T.N.Sheshan,ex-CEC on-board…
oh god help delhi institutes…
pure comercialization……I hate it
cut off for general category would be 190-200
i m studying at ALS
50% of ALS students have scored 190+
I definitely think there won't be any individual cut off…
@raghav:—
Great..so in this time, D result of ALS is going 2 be high..& 4m next yr, d fee would be also going 2 be high. ALS student r very smart. But u didn't told that how many student in ALS. Because after that i can take d 50% & understand that any remaining seat out of approx 12000.
No speculation, as result is going to be declared by UPSC before 5.8.11. We will know what is right and wrong in their opinion. Restlessness is to be controlled upto this weekened.
@LazyLord:- Let's assume cut off is 160, combined. For instance, a candidate secured (-)5 in P-I & 165 in P-II (total-160) and another candidate secured 65 in P-I & 90 in P-II(total-155) then who is deserved to write main? Against this, i strongly believe that there would be definitely minimum qualifying mark for each paper, otherwise the purpose of two different paper will be defeated. Your analysis for 160 cut off seems to be correct but 'combined' is not logical.
Kuch hi din me sub pata chal jayega. Tab jakar real cutoff pata chalega.. Last yr v yahi hua tha. 40 % predict kar rahe the sub log or hua ki kuch ka 30% even 25% par hi selection ho gaya. kuch log jo result nikalne ke pahle bol rahe the ki maine 50% sahi banaya hai, result nikalne ke baad pata nahi kaha chale gaye. Isse mujhe ek baat pata lagi ki kuch log subdo ke sahare darane bale hote hai or kuch log apne ko superior dikhane me lage rahte hai. This yr also seem to be like that. No change in mentality. yese logo ke liye mai ek hi baat kahna chahta hu ki 'Go to Hell'. Aub hum tumhare foolish baato ko nahi sununga. yese baato ko kebal tum sunoge akele hi. Yese logo ko mera suggestion—–When we start hating/demoralizing someone everything about that person becomes so irritating !!…….sudhar jao nahi to kiro-makoro ki tarah khatm ho jaoge or koi janega v nahi…..!!!!
I totally agree with you raj. No doubt there will definitely atleast two thousand bright/ smart alecs scoring 200+… So just waiting to see if any slot is left over for lesser mortals like me who are in 175-185 bracket after an honest and competent amount of preparation [ i think
]
result kub niklegaaaaaaaaaaaaa?????? i am going mad now!
and btw lazylord, why cant we comment on the other popular post anymore?
Result should be announced anytime now. There were too many personal attacks against other commenters on that post. Let's disagree more agreeably here.
Just wondering aloud… Do all of us waiting for prelims results exhibit the following symptoms… 1) increased frustration 2) high levels of irritability 3) insomnia 4)rapid mood swings 5) sudden and renewed faith in gods , miracles and spirituality 6)in extreme cases .. Deep Urge to strike the head of everyone with a higher score than you with a cricket bat OR run over them in a lorry
7) or in very extreme cases … Just lie paralysed on the bed with eyes wide open throughout day and night , stare at the walls with only word echoing in ur head "cutoff " "cutoff" "cutoff"…! Enuffffff! Results plzzzzzzzz..waaaaah..mummy kahan ho tum…
Ha ha..lol..So true!!!
Hope to materialise this attempt with tinge of success. Afterall its all about one's correct analysis of questions and the subsequent answering of the maximum of themselves to be executed within four hours of tenor within the examination hall in two equal shifts with focused attention.I hope myself to have been performing better to my best.Although,i did not perform upto my expection , but still hope for positive result with an aggregate of 122.5 marks.Further, i hope that my god will bless me with positive attitude and faith upon me………….
Your rationale about there being no individual cut offs may have hold good till last year. But this time given the nature of exam, its difficult to say for sure that UPSC wont resort to sectional evaluation in case of conflict. for eg: 2 aspirants having score- either you compare their P1 score or relative performance in each papers for selection. Given the facts that:
1. quite a few aspirants are in the range of 150-180 so the possibility of a large number of candidates being tied at the same score is quite high;
2. P2 was relatively easier and certain section of students (engineering, management, CAT etc) had comparative advantage (whether one agrees or not) performed much better than the rest;
3. P1 had conceptual and application based questions to weed out less serious aspirants; and
4. P2 is still in the introductory/experimentation phase and placing it on the same footing as P1 may lead to unfair selection for mains (well, one may argue)
Now do you believe that in such circumstances UPSC would still follow the precedent?
Another week of tension,anxiety & restlessness is over,but in vain.Hopefully the coming week is the week of us,which will paves the door to the mains to 12k successful aspirants.Best wishes to everyone
today is 15th….so as i have braved the 15 days….i m hoping to get through d left time…..got around 180 so on d edge……mr. result plz come positive and fast…. nice blog by d way
if individual cut off will be there….cut off will be individual but very low like might be 15-20 percent…..dis is what think….what say mr. lazylord
i mean dis is what i think
yes niti u might be right…but lets just hope for d best…coz already we r so tensed and anxious….and thinking about cutoff will get us more anxious…….i wish all those who have really studied hard and deserve get through…….including myself….
do anybody know… result will come on 16th or what
To err is human……
To forgive…..is not upsc's policy.
only two months left for mains frnds. MAINTAIN MAXIMUM MOMENTUM FOR MAINS PREP.. Otherwise even if we do qualify for mains,it would be futile!
At d last About CSAT 2011 cutoff:——-
1. For GS cutoff……
As d exam which has't -ve marking like BPSC, d cutoff goes to 65-70%. If they introduce -ve marking then i think d cutoff will go to around 45-50%. But if d exam is UPSC(civil services), in which d ques. is not straight forward then d cutoff can go to 30-40%.
2. For Aptitude paper…..
In CAT exam, As i know if a candidate get 40% then he/she become 100 percentile candidate.
So on d above analysis, CSAT 2011 cutoff would go to (70+80)150. I think so..
NOTE:—I m trying 2 compare with other exam…
I think Today it will clear.
result kab aayega???
Any credible information when the result will be published?
17th ho gayi….result kab aayega
No idea dear….lets see tomorrow evening as most of r saying…
ohh God wat the truck…….tensed up
I am happy to let you know guys, I successfully cleared the prelims. Congrats to all and all the best with your Mains.
Really u r lucky guys b/c am not in the list of prelims 2011 result And give u r best efforts for mains xam..
Thanks!
Anil.
hi all,
results out ,i didnt clear prelims( was expecting 185),deeply dissappointed. Congratulations to those who did! wish you all the best for mains! Well lazylord ur predicted cut off was not very accurate, nevertheless it gave a lot of strength and hope to many people and kept us in good spirits! thanx for that! 2012 is my last (4th) attempt and im moving to delhi before all my boats get sunk
. take care and wishing you all good luck!
Subject :Cut off CSP-2011
I scored 195-230 in OBC Category, but could not clear. So many friends scored 170-188 in OBC cleared it. Many friends of mine discussed it and came into conclusion that there had not been any minimum cut off in both papers. They started new SCALING of AGE without declaring it officially, they did it and scaled out the people of senior age. Those, who scored more than those selected for Mains, but could not qualify need to go in COURT with UNION of Candidates. If anybody going to court, must mail others including me so that a large no of people going to Court to enforce them declare their method and marks and nothing to conceal and show that they are FAIR and TRANSPARENT.
Hi ,
What you said was True . I did not make it to Prelims. Feels bad. Paper1 80(40*2) + Paper2 112(45*2.5) = (192)Total. I fall in GM. I should have got 200+ . Regretting now.
Thanks
Bharath Rakesh
main apna prlims marks kaise pata kar paaunga pls tell me
I would been happy if UPSC would have declared it.
It is only by answer Key of different website and taking AVG. I had even considered my marks on the lesser side. Any way sorry . I did not clear end of the day.
Congratulations to those who cleared Prelims…
But koi cutoff batao..
and is there any source from upsc website to find syllabus for mains subjects?
I definitely know that, I missed CSAT Prelims by a whisker… Only 9 months more for CSAT 2012. Gear up guys.. Fight till the last and u will find ur name in toppers list in 2013… All the Best !!!
Cleared the prelims.Congratulations to all other candidiates. Let's gear up for the mains now,
I didn't clear the prelims.Congrats to those who find their roll no for d main's list.2 month's left & too much work to be done.Give your's best effort so that no stone left unturned.Best wishes & a great ahead.
how can i get prelims marks..tell me pls thanks
As per my view by this time there is no cut off for each paper and and cut off for both paper will as follows
for general category-208+
For OBC-187+
for Sc & St – 168+
No of intake students for mains xam by this time are 11993.
Thank you!
Anil.
9971823674
@ anil
how did you know the cutoffs? is it possible to know our scores as well?
@Anil, I think u r quite closer to the reality. But this is not fully correct at all. U must have some link with upsc. Tell them to provide mark-sheets as well. The controversy itself says that they have'nt checked all the copies. Random checking is also done by the upsc by picking few copies from the bundles of answer sheets. This is the main reason why don't they declare each one's marks. If they checked each copy, why can't they show our marks as SSC does.
Hey come on guys, to hell with CS Prelims 2011. For those didnt make it (like me) let's put the past behind us and get better. No point in cribbing over why UPSC is not furbishing marks blah blah blah!!. Lets make sure when we give it next time, we dont have to worry about what the cut-off will be. What say, now who's with me. I've already started my journey.
Hey come on guys, to hell with CS Prelims 2011. For those didnt make it (like me) let’s put the past behind us and get better. No point in cribbing over why UPSC is not furnishing marks blah blah blah!!. Lets make sure when we give it next time, we dont have to worry about what the cut-off will be. What say, now who’s with me. I’ve already started my journey.
Hi Lazylord,
Thanks for this wonderful blog and for all the innovative, informative and comprehensive posts. These kind-a efforst made the internet useful and as an alternative for coaching classes.
I failed this time but i am not out of race. But as others predict that the exam will get tougher next time so how much score i should target for me?
I am a working person and i decided PubAd for me as one optional. The other one is Psychology but its still in my mind because of time constraints as i am not able to attend Mr. Mukul Pathak sir's classes. I have his notes which i got from Ber Sarai (Don't know whether they are from his class or not).
I want your opinion for Psychology as a subject which i want to prepare on my own!!!!
Last but not least thank you for the guidelines for a working person preparing for ias.
Thank You
…
wtz d cutoff for OC candidates in prelims 2011………??
Dear Lazylord,
Hearing to all the marks of the candidates who have been selected and those who all have missed out it surely seems that there has been individual cutoff marks for paper I & paper II.
Logically looking at it we can infer that there can be individual cutoff because now the papers were common to everyone appearing in exams, be it any background. This was not the case when one subject used to vary as per aspirants choice.
As per the question that UPSC can be dragged to court to answer that why they haven't declared that there will be individual cutoff doesn't seem possible as IITs has been practicing the cutoff system even though they have never declared (in the examination forms) that there will be individual cutoff.
thanks
ur work is commendable
Hi all,
i came to this blog a bit late… but if there are ppl still reading this …
THERE WAS NO INDIVIDUAL CUTOFF THIS YEAR as i had cleared the prelims despite getting as low marks as 38 in paper-1. thankfully i got 165+ marks in paper-2.
Hats off to u Lok!! Was really really helpful post. I wish nd hope dat all dose who cleared their UPSC Prelimns share their marks nd views!!
Hello sir ,
I am currently pursuing btech in cse field and have started preparing for civils preperaton,i am completely focused on prelims for now ,dont want to take any chances ,so after some research i have opted for the following books ,please suggest me any modification or updation as you see fit :
current affairs:manorama,economic survey
economy:hindu,pratyogita darpan,ncert 11 &12 economic books
general science:tmh general science/manorama
polty:our constitution by subhash kashyap
history:ancient india-rs sharma, midieval india-satish chandra ,modern india-bipin chandra
geography-bipin chandra
decision making 7problm solving: rs agarwal books
mental maths :rs agarwal
sir please suggest me any modification which you deem important & please guide me in how to study history ,polity &economics as in to what extent & scope i should be prepared
Thanks & Regards
Abhishiek
Respected Sir,
I just finished my MBA and now my mind is all for an IAS. I would like to know about the prelims in detail. I am also encouraging my Sister to take an IAS but she has just finished her 12th so is it possible for her to write her prelims before she finishes her degree. In the paper 1, should we be updated about the latest news. Can u please give me your your mail ID.
Looking forward for your reply ! Good day..
Thanking You
Annie